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Easy, Beautiful Progress Notification in the Task Bar

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Montblanc
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Simply amazing and completely efficient. Voted good on kde-look.org. :thumbs_up:
User avatar Kubuntiac
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Fri13 wrote:I like the process idea. But it works only on applications what need to be open when process is happening, like CD/DVD burning. [...]
What happens when user closes the Dolphin window?


For the rare apps that create tasks running in the background even when later closed, the process continues and could still be checked on from the systray if desired. This is stated in the original idea. It's just clearer that the task is still active, clearly linked to the app, leaving more screenspace that the notifier while the app window *is* open. This means that the large current notifier almost never needs to be seen.


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clintonthegeek
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But what about if I have multiple progress bars for a single app? If you have more than one transfer job chugging along in the background, they're not all going to fit nicely together, and you'll have no way of knowing which bar corresponds to which.
User avatar Kubuntiac
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clintonthegeek wrote:what about if I have multiple progress bars for a single app?


I'm guessing you mean multiple *tasks*. As stated in the original idea, if you wished, you could still see the current detailed breakdown from the systray. With this you will just *also* get an indication *on the app with running task(s)* that it has something active. I imagine that in the case of one app running 2+ tasks the bar would show an average. Systray (or tooltip) could still show a breakdown of each though.

Everyone's happy. :)

Last edited by Kubuntiac on Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:25 am, edited 1 time in total.


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User avatar Ujjwol
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this has been already implemented in windows 7. i have added this some pics of windows 7 so that the developers can take example form it...
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Ujjwol, proud user of KDE 4 and member of KDE forums since 2008-Oct.
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User avatar Madman
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Yeah, but then Windows always had a thing with in-your-face pop-up windows (Hence the name, I guess). Every time you sneeze, a pop-up flies at you. That's one more thing I hate Windows for, and prefer KDE 4 to KDE 3 for unquestionably.


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User avatar Fri13
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TheBlackCat wrote:
Fri13 wrote:Does the process bar move to systray?

This would be the best solution IMO, but should probably be configurable.


It is not wise that information is moved between different places, depending what is open and what ain't. One universal place is best solution.

Fri13 wrote:I think that we need to think more about the process notification. The current impletation is correct way to go. One place where _all_ is shown.
There is no reason these two are mutually exclusive. A simple checkbox in the system tray settings box could toggle the behavior.


Usability is the reason. We do not need configuration options if it ends up having information to get moved and user can not learn right away where the information is always.

Fri13 wrote:And this really needs a big bar. I dont like to have text on the bar at all. I want them off so only the icons are shown.
There is already work being done on this, but it is a separate issue.


That is nice thing what is coming, but it means that process bar can not be long, it would be very short/small and then it is again a usability problem. Best way is then again one universal knotify widget/place where all information is located.

Fri13 wrote:And I know people who keeps only tasks showed on windows what are minimized, this does not work at all on them.
Probably the same thing would happen as when the window is closed. Either it would move to the system tray, would already also be in the system tray (but perhaps just not pop up), or would just disappear, depending on your settings. Much of the system tray notification system and notification system is already highly configurable in trunk.


Yes, but that is again a usability problem. You minimize window, you get progress bar on task panel. If you have window open, it would be on systray. If you have no-text -tasks, it would end up again for different kind.

If we polish the current idea of one universal place, we have only one place, what is always samekind and same way working. And we do not have such big usability problems what we should need to fix for it.

This idea works fine only when the window is open. But it can not be open all the time. And this would make problems even for then. Like you have Kopete open. Someone sends you a file and you accept it. Where should the progess bar show? Someone sends then a message, it has actions (view, ignore) on it. Where should this go? You would end up to have two different places for information what could be placed on one place only, like now it is possible.
User avatar Kubuntiac
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Hey everyone.

Good points all around, although I have a feeling this is being overcomplicated. My original idea was basically that *if* an app is open that has a running task, that a progressbar in the taskbar shows how it's going.

You see the same window title text twice, both at the top of the window and in the task bar. No one sees this as a problem. It's just putting it where it's easy to understand. Having that text in the task bar doesn't mean we can't have it on the window. This just makes it obvious to new users that it's the same app, represented in two locations (the window and the taskbar).

Is it useful to have one place where all the active tasks can be seen together? Sure, just like it's useful to see all running processes in the system activity monitor. I use it fairly often myself and have gotten used to it. Being used to it though doesn't make it ideal. I've personally seen (and had quite a few others having seen) that new users though don't connect a generic system tray icon to the app running an active task. Just like the system activity monitor, it's useful, but by itself not a beginners tool. Just like the window title text, this info can be shown both in the taskbar, *and* more in depth in other locations more advanced users know to check (such as the systray). Even if we still have the huge systray notification popup (which I suspect will be improved soon) then it almost never *needs* to be seen, but people can still use it just like today if desired.

This way people can use what they need, zero configuration, windows open, closed or minimised. Nothing lost and a lot of clarity gained.

Last edited by Kubuntiac on Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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User avatar Madman
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My honest opinion? I've not seen the new system-tray notifications scheme (screenshots, anyone?), but I've a feeling that it's getting heavily improved, and that this kind of suggestion could easily go hand-in-hand with the new system. It's earned my vote.


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I think it would be great to configure it for each app, maybe: Display Kopete-messages with the normal KNotify-message, copying in task-bar and xyz in systemtray.
User avatar Kubuntiac
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Thanks for the feedback TheUser.

This is is just regarding progress notifications (ie where you normally see a progress bar). Standard notifications like those in Kopete, Quassel etc. wouldn't be touched by this. The intended use case for the original idea is for users to see your apps progress through large tasks without any clicking, large pop ups or needing to know that all apps are hidden in a systray icon.


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User avatar blindvic
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I think this kind of notifications must be programmed in the applicatin itslef. So Dolphin itlsef decides (set in the options?) how to show its current progress - on the taskbar or in system tray.
Concerning notifications, i have an idea (maybe not new): if an application ussues a notification, it appears near its tab on taskbar, then moves animated to the systray
User avatar Kubuntiac
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blindvic wrote:Dolphin itlsef decides (set in the options?) how to show its current progress - on the taskbar or in system tray.


Why limit it to one or the other? Why not both? That way the user experience is more consistent, if the progress can always be found in the same way, whether you prefer all progress in one place in the system tray, or quickly visible without clicking on the application in the task bar, no configuration needed.


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User avatar blaziushw
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I think this is very beautiful, but if we close accidentally the window? we will lose the action (copy, exclude, etc...). The actual progress bar on sys tray resolve this. Maybe this progress bar could be on sys tray just for beauty.


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User avatar Kubuntiac
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blaziushw wrote:I think this is very beautiful, but if we close accidentally the window? we will lose the action (copy, exclude, etc...). The actual progress bar on sys tray resolve this. Maybe this progress bar could be on sys tray just for beauty.


This has already been addressed. The system tray still exists, just as it does now. You don't lose anything, except having a large pop up when you haven't asked for it. You just have an *extra* indicator that links the progress to the app it belongs to, that is clearly visible even to a new user. Users advanced enough to know that all tasks can be seen in the system tray can still view them from there exactly as they do now. Because progress can normally be seen from the taskbar though, there is no need to have a large pop up that mysteriously dissapears before the job is done, when it's first opened. It's right there on your app in the taskbar.

If people were really concerned about continuity, then closing an app with a running task could pop up a dialogue with a message like "This application has an active task running. You can see the progress of this task in the system tray icon." with a checkbox saying "Don't show this message again." This is going beyond the scope of this suggestion though, as this is something missing even now from the current notification system.

Last edited by Kubuntiac on Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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