... it would be quite a minger at the moment :'(

Don't worry folks, this won't be another "kde is so sh*t rant"

First of all - although this is my first post here, I've been a KDE user since 1998 or 1999 (can't pinpoint an exact date).

In general I would like to say, hats off to the KDE folks for having the balls to take such a radical step in development. But simultaneously they shall also take delivery of an almighty kick in aforementioned bodily appendage for making such a monkeys breakfast of it :-S

I want to try to explain what IMHO went horribly wrong and maybe come up with a suggestion or two, how that might be fixed.

I've tested the KDE 4.1 variants that came with Fedora 9 (the most horribly broken Linux I've ever seen btw :-@) and with Mandriva 2009, so some of my experiences might not apply to a vanilla KDE 4.1
To get back to the car theme, if I had just ordered my new shiny KDE Mark IV, it would be delivered in a flashy metallic color complete with stickers plastered all over it and with all sorts of accesories, like a bobbing head puppy in the back, which I didn't order. But the car folks give me a spatula and a blowdryer, so I can remove all the pimp-mobile stickers, if I don't like them. :-S
The gear lever is where it is supposed to be - but you have to slide through 3 layers of cover to get to it (start menu), but the car folks say, I can unscrew all the covers and I'll have a gear stick just like the one I'm used to from my Mark III KDE.
Also the car has terrible teething problems, because someone in the factory labeled the car KDE Mark IV although it was an early prototype, not yet meant to go on sale.

That shall be in a bit more lighthearted manner what makes me sure that KDE 3 will stay on my machines, for quite a while.

IMHO the two worst errors where to ´stick on the 4.x label at all, until the system is in a somewhat useable state it should have been 3.99-something-or-other - labeling it 4.0 is a PR desaster.

The next big thing is the ghastly new start menu and all sorts of flashy shiny bits - please, people - make stuff optional. Even Micro$oft got that one right - if you dont like the fisherprice look of XP, you open Preferences, select "classic theme" - voila, all the flashy junk's gone. Please add such a "go back to classic look" option, that doesn't require a gazillion right clicks on all sort of stuff or make the user explicitely select that he wants all those pin-on dockable round-in-the corner malarkey instead of making it all enabled by default.

Also, I do think, that bringing back the old KDE control center instead of the horribly messed up settings stuff might see some disgruntled long-time users come back.

That's my 2 currency units. I hope I didn't offend someone

lukenwolf wrote:First of all - although this is my first post here, I've been a KDE user since 1998 or 1999 (can't pinpoint an exact date).

I've noticed a trend, that those who are relatively new to KDE can't stop praising the wonderfulness of 4.x, while those who have been using it since the 1.0 days tend to be the ones expressing a bit of dissatisfaction. That wouldn't be so bad, except that a few of the youngins act like they wish we oldfarts would just go off somewhere and die.

To get back to the car theme, if I had just ordered my new shiny KDE Mark IV, it would be delivered in a flashy metallic color complete with stickers plastered all over it and with all sorts of accesories, like a bobbing head puppy in the back, which I didn't order. But the car folks give me a spatula and a blowdryer, so I can remove all the pimp-mobile stickers, if I don't like them. :-S

I used a car analogy myself elsewhere. To me it's like this:

Buyer: "Hey, there's no gear shift!"
Dealer: "Manual transmissions are so old fashioned."
Buyer: "But there's no automatic transmission either!"
Dealer: "That's an upgrade that won't be available until version 4.2."
Buyer: "But how do I put it in reverse to back out of the driveway?"
Dealer: "Gee, you sure do complain a lot, maybe you would be happier with a bicycle."

[quote='Brandybuck' pid='32181' dateline='1231443645'

I've noticed a trend, that those who are relatively new to KDE can't stop praising the wonderfulness of 4.x, while those who have been using it since the 1.0 days tend to be the ones expressing a bit of dissatisfaction. [/quote]

Yup, noticed that too. But that is what you get when you make radical changes, like kde4 has done.

That wouldn't be so bad, except that a few of the youngins act like they wish we oldfarts would just go off somewhere and die.

Well, at least kde itself doesn't react like that. For example: the old startmenu is still there, you can switch from dolphin to konqueror and in kde 4.2 (or 4.1.3 in opensuse) you can switch back to the oldfashion way of rendering the desktop.

If KDE were a car, not every buyer of the old model would get the new one. And yet if would attract buyers that previously owned another brand.

However, if the old model was never to be renewed, people would surely stop buying it altogether, except maybe for some old farts...

If KDE were a car, it would be in stored in Jim's garage, and Jack, Steve, and Bill would all come over to tinker on it, then they'd show it off to they're buddies, who would ask, "where's the transmission?", and Jim, Jack, Steve, and Bill reply, "Well, we haven't installed the real one yet, but for now, you can pull on this duct-taped piece of f(l)oss here..."

If KDE were a car, Gnome would be a bus, a very big one, so that anybody can enter. Everybody sits on the floor, though, chairs can be complicated sometimes.

This is stupid :P

lukenwolf wrote:... it would be quite a minger at the moment :'(

Don't worry folks, this won't be another "kde is so sh*t rant"

First of all - although this is my first post here, I've been a KDE user since 1998 or 1999 (can't pinpoint an exact date).

In general I would like to say, hats off to the KDE folks for having the balls to take such a radical step in development. But simultaneously they shall also take delivery of an almighty kick in aforementioned bodily appendage for making such a monkeys breakfast of it :-S

I want to try to explain what IMHO went horribly wrong and maybe come up with a suggestion or two, how that might be fixed.

I've tested the KDE 4.1 variants that came with Fedora 9 (the most horribly broken Linux I've ever seen btw :-@) and with Mandriva 2009, so some of my experiences might not apply to a vanilla KDE 4.1
To get back to the car theme, if I had just ordered my new shiny KDE Mark IV, it would be delivered in a flashy metallic color complete with stickers plastered all over it and with all sorts of accesories, like a bobbing head puppy in the back, which I didn't order. But the car folks give me a spatula and a blowdryer, so I can remove all the pimp-mobile stickers, if I don't like them. :-S
The gear lever is where it is supposed to be - but you have to slide through 3 layers of cover to get to it (start menu), but the car folks say, I can unscrew all the covers and I'll have a gear stick just like the one I'm used to from my Mark III KDE.
Also the car has terrible teething problems, because someone in the factory labeled the car KDE Mark IV although it was an early prototype, not yet meant to go on sale.

That shall be in a bit more lighthearted manner what makes me sure that KDE 3 will stay on my machines, for quite a while.

IMHO the two worst errors where to ´stick on the 4.x label at all, until the system is in a somewhat useable state it should have been 3.99-something-or-other - labeling it 4.0 is a PR desaster.

The next big thing is the ghastly new start menu and all sorts of flashy shiny bits - please, people - make stuff optional. Even Micro$oft got that one right - if you dont like the fisherprice look of XP, you open Preferences, select "classic theme" - voila, all the flashy junk's gone. Please add such a "go back to classic look" option, that doesn't require a gazillion right clicks on all sort of stuff or make the user explicitely select that he wants all those pin-on dockable round-in-the corner malarkey instead of making it all enabled by default.

Also, I do think, that bringing back the old KDE control center instead of the horribly messed up settings stuff might see some disgruntled long-time users come back.

That's my 2 currency units. I hope I didn't offend someone

If KDE was a car, I think you would be too drunk to safely use it right now.:-P


If KDE was a car, I wouldn't be able to post in this forum without liability insurance.

If KDE was a car, I'd be in the back seat of KDE with your girlfriend.

(BTW: This is my first web post from the new Web Browser widget in KDE 4.2)[hr]

lukenwolf wrote:... it would be quite a minger at the moment :'(

Don't worry folks, this won't be another "kde is so sh*t rant"

First of all - although this is my first post here, I've been a KDE user since 1998 or 1999 (can't pinpoint an exact date).

In general I would like to say, hats off to the KDE folks for having the balls to take such a radical step in development. But simultaneously they shall also take delivery of an almighty kick in aforementioned bodily appendage for making such a monkeys breakfast of it :-S

I want to try to explain what IMHO went horribly wrong and maybe come up with a suggestion or two, how that might be fixed.

I've tested the KDE 4.1 variants that came with Fedora 9 (the most horribly broken Linux I've ever seen btw :-@) and with Mandriva 2009, so some of my experiences might not apply to a vanilla KDE 4.1
To get back to the car theme, if I had just ordered my new shiny KDE Mark IV, it would be delivered in a flashy metallic color complete with stickers plastered all over it and with all sorts of accesories, like a bobbing head puppy in the back, which I didn't order. But the car folks give me a spatula and a blowdryer, so I can remove all the pimp-mobile stickers, if I don't like them. :-S
The gear lever is where it is supposed to be - but you have to slide through 3 layers of cover to get to it (start menu), but the car folks say, I can unscrew all the covers and I'll have a gear stick just like the one I'm used to from my Mark III KDE.
Also the car has terrible teething problems, because someone in the factory labeled the car KDE Mark IV although it was an early prototype, not yet meant to go on sale.

That shall be in a bit more lighthearted manner what makes me sure that KDE 3 will stay on my machines, for quite a while.

IMHO the two worst errors where to ´stick on the 4.x label at all, until the system is in a somewhat useable state it should have been 3.99-something-or-other - labeling it 4.0 is a PR desaster.

The next big thing is the ghastly new start menu and all sorts of flashy shiny bits - please, people - make stuff optional. Even Micro$oft got that one right - if you dont like the fisherprice look of XP, you open Preferences, select "classic theme" - voila, all the flashy junk's gone. Please add such a "go back to classic look" option, that doesn't require a gazillion right clicks on all sort of stuff or make the user explicitely select that he wants all those pin-on dockable round-in-the corner malarkey instead of making it all enabled by default.

Also, I do think, that bringing back the old KDE control center instead of the horribly messed up settings stuff might see some disgruntled long-time users come back.

That's my 2 currency units. I hope I didn't offend someone

If KDE was a car, I think you would be too drunk to safely use it right now.:-P


If KDE was a car, I wouldn't be able to post in this forum without liability insurance.

If KDE was a car, I'd be in the back seat of KDE with your girlfriend.

No need to be rude...

Jeez, I hope that you're the one with no sense of humor, but I can't really tell; it may be me.

If KDE was a car, I would drive around looking for a Gnome user willng to play "chicken".

An old fart here, KDE user since 2.x, though I did have a taste of 1.4 something somewhere. I have loved every version of KDE I have ever used

If KDE were a car, I might consider comparing it to Toyota Land Cruisers
1.x= old, original jeep-style - basic, got the job done well
2.x = old classic style but with a Chevy V-8 replacing the straight-6, and many choices of aftermarket lift kits and accessories
3.x Luxo version we have today - bloated in some ways, but still fully capable and powerful and comfortable all at the same time, with gobs of new features added over the years, as well as plenty of aftermarket goodies

4.x = new FJ Cruiser: new, funky looks, but still waiting for the aftermarket to develop some great new things for it

(well, not perfect, but I tried )

claydoh wrote:An old fart here, KDE user since 2.x, though I did have a taste of 1.4 something somewhere. I have loved every version of KDE I have ever used

If KDE were a car, I might consider comparing it to Toyota Land Cruisers
1.x= old, original jeep-style - basic, got the job done well
2.x = old classic style but with a Chevy V-8 replacing the straight-6, and many choices of aftermarket lift kits and accessories
3.x Luxo version we have today - bloated in some ways, but still fully capable and powerful and comfortable all at the same time, with gobs of new features added over the years, as well as plenty of aftermarket goodies

4.x = new FJ Cruiser: new, funky looks, but still waiting for the aftermarket to develop some great new things for it

(well, not perfect, but I tried )

Right, you used US cars...
And I have no idea what your talking about. But on the other hand the rest of the description is pretty good.
EDIT: Sorry, just forget about. Wasn't my day today...

dcrabs wrote:

claydoh wrote:An old fart here, KDE user since 2.x, though I did have a taste of 1.4 something somewhere. I have loved every version of KDE I have ever used

If KDE were a car, I might consider comparing it to Toyota Land Cruisers
1.x= old, original jeep-style - basic, got the job done well
2.x = old classic style but with a Chevy V-8 replacing the straight-6, and many choices of aftermarket lift kits and accessories
3.x Luxo version we have today - bloated in some ways, but still fully capable and powerful and comfortable all at the same time, with gobs of new features added over the years, as well as plenty of aftermarket goodies

4.x = new FJ Cruiser: new, funky looks, but still waiting for the aftermarket to develop some great new things for it

(well, not perfect, but I tried )

Right, you used US cars...
And I have no idea what your talking about. But on the other hand the rest of the description is pretty good.

If you read closely you'll see that he used the Toyota Land Cruiser.
Thats a Japanese car...
But I still don't recognize the versions of it (probably really American versions).
I know that original land cruiser is what is known by those that saw Black Hawk Down or played Generals as technical. It's very popular in Africa and you can see it on news about some local war where there is an machine gun on the roof or bunch of guys with AK-47 and RPG riding on it...
To try and "translate" to European cars:
KDE1 is something like Trabi or Fiat 500 or Yugo
KDE2 maybe something like original Audi Quattro (or is this to powerful?)
KDE3 previous generation of I don't know let's say some Volkswagwen car (Golf or maybe something more executive)
And KDE4 I guess something like BMW X5 or something like that.
(Note that this is not my personal view I'm just trying to translate it to European cars)

I'm using KDE since 3.5 so I can hardly equate it to a car and last time I was really into car was when I was 5 years old...
But let me try it:
KDE3: old limousine version of Honda Civic
KDE4: the new hatchback Honda Civic, that looks like something from the future, and you either like it or hate it...

That wasn't very nice.[hr]
Haha @ Stretched Honda Civic!

lukenwolf wrote:... it would be quite a minger at the moment :'(

Don't worry folks, this won't be another "kde is so sh*t rant"

First of all - although this is my first post here, I've been a KDE user since 1998 or 1999 (can't pinpoint an exact date).

In general I would like to say, hats off to the KDE folks for having the balls to take such a radical step in development. But simultaneously they shall also take delivery of an almighty kick in aforementioned bodily appendage for making such a monkeys breakfast of it :-S

I want to try to explain what IMHO went horribly wrong and maybe come up with a suggestion or two, how that might be fixed.

I've tested the KDE 4.1 variants that came with Fedora 9 (the most horribly broken Linux I've ever seen btw :-@) and with Mandriva 2009, so some of my experiences might not apply to a vanilla KDE 4.1
To get back to the car theme, if I had just ordered my new shiny KDE Mark IV, it would be delivered in a flashy metallic color complete with stickers plastered all over it and with all sorts of accesories, like a bobbing head puppy in the back, which I didn't order. But the car folks give me a spatula and a blowdryer, so I can remove all the pimp-mobile stickers, if I don't like them. :-S
The gear lever is where it is supposed to be - but you have to slide through 3 layers of cover to get to it (start menu), but the car folks say, I can unscrew all the covers and I'll have a gear stick just like the one I'm used to from my Mark III KDE.
Also the car has terrible teething problems, because someone in the factory labeled the car KDE Mark IV although it was an early prototype, not yet meant to go on sale.

That shall be in a bit more lighthearted manner what makes me sure that KDE 3 will stay on my machines, for quite a while.

IMHO the two worst errors where to ´stick on the 4.x label at all, until the system is in a somewhat useable state it should have been 3.99-something-or-other - labeling it 4.0 is a PR desaster.

The next big thing is the ghastly new start menu and all sorts of flashy shiny bits - please, people - make stuff optional. Even Micro$oft got that one right - if you dont like the fisherprice look of XP, you open Preferences, select "classic theme" - voila, all the flashy junk's gone. Please add such a "go back to classic look" option, that doesn't require a gazillion right clicks on all sort of stuff or make the user explicitely select that he wants all those pin-on dockable round-in-the corner malarkey instead of making it all enabled by default.

Also, I do think, that bringing back the old KDE control center instead of the horribly messed up settings stuff might see some disgruntled long-time users come back.

That's my 2 currency units. I hope I didn't offend someone

I have to agree with you on most of that stuff including the menu and the control center. however the main thing I don't like about kde4 is that the never fixed the start key! at first you had to map it in the konsole which takes some finding out but now there isn't even a short cut for it! for some odd reason it sounds like something that windows would screw up:thumbs_down:. I hope kde fixes the start key in 4.2. (which I am using right now(beta2) very very pretty just a few widget issues) fortunately though you can make the window title-bar look normal by going into personal settings>appearance> windows>window decoration>plastik. hope that helps anybody who thinks the title bar looks odd, but does somebody know how to fix the start key?

Your system style scheme ( which also controls the appearence of scrollbars, etc ) may also want to be changed if you don't like the Oxygen look. Old style Plastique is still available on my system.

You can also change your Plasma theme to Aya, which will make it more Plainer and will obey your System colour scheme as well.