The new systray in trunk actually supports plasmoids as well as "normal" applcations.

Windows 7 looks like a decent stab at a new OS. I wouldn't use it since I've learned to avoid DRM-ridden proprietary software, but it looks nice. Whether Windows users accept it is another matter entirely. I know a lot of everyday Windows users who still cling to XP and Office 2003 because they don't want to learn new interfaces and losing the text for icons in the taskbar would probably scare the hell out of them.

Some of Windows 7's UI changes probably ought to be considered. Their new menu, for example, is much better than Kickoff because once you click on it you can see (1) favorite applications, (2) recent and frequently used documents, and (3) a button to shut down. Kickoff has those in 3 separate tabs and that's inconvenient. The "jump lists" are also something to consider.

Janne wrote:We should think of a way to totally eliminate the systray. Although hiding icons is a satisfactory workaround. I really don't understand why I would have to constantly see the Kwallet-icon for example. I think that Kwallet should be empty by default. It should only contain icons that actually try to tell me something at that very moment. But then again, we have notifications for that....[hr]
Another article:

http://neowin.net/news/live/08/10/28/in ... ndows-7-ui

You have to remember, though, that KDE apps are not the only ones using the systray. If you want to eliminate it, you would also have to do something about GTK+ applications. Not to mention that Wine programs can use the systray too.

Alec wrote:
You have to remember, though, that KDE apps are not the only ones using the systray. If you want to eliminate it, you would also have to do something about GTK+ applications. Not to mention that Wine programs can use the systray too.

There could be legacy-support for systray-stuff (it could be a plasmoid on the desktop), but KDE-apps could move to new and greener pastures.

Janne wrote:

Alec wrote:
You have to remember, though, that KDE apps are not the only ones using the systray. If you want to eliminate it, you would also have to do something about GTK+ applications. Not to mention that Wine programs can use the systray too.

There could be legacy-support for systray-stuff (it could be a plasmoid on the desktop), but KDE-apps could move to new and greener pastures.

Have you thought about XFCE/GNOME users that use KDE apps?

Alec wrote:

Janne wrote:

Alec wrote:
You have to remember, though, that KDE apps are not the only ones using the systray. If you want to eliminate it, you would also have to do something about GTK+ applications. Not to mention that Wine programs can use the systray too.

There could be legacy-support for systray-stuff (it could be a plasmoid on the desktop), but KDE-apps could move to new and greener pastures.

Have you thought about XFCE/GNOME users that use KDE apps?

I thought about an option in KDE settings that lets the user to switch between "use plasma" and "use tray".

Please don't "loose" the systray or some functional equivalent! (am I the only one who thinks this is an absurd suggestion). It is *really* useful.
Almost all the content in the systray is dynamic (is updated to reflect the status of software running on the system) and active (you can interact with it directly to open a relevant application or access a relevant menu). It is always visible so it provides information with the minimum of distraction from the current task. KDE spps are much better behaved than windows apps in this regard.

For my money the task switcher is a much bigger waste of space as typically each application icon is completely static, and most of the time I prefer to switch tasks using alt-tab. But I digress

windows 7? Don't really care. MS gave us transparent window decorations - gah!

I rather see some new things like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfzplPIrzjY . Windows 7 is just the same thing as before with a little change under the hood and some eye candy.

I hope linux will also think more on touch our multi touch in there roadmaps, it will be the future also web based applications will be.

The patent situation WRT multi-touch needs to be kept in mind. There are plenty of pages discussing; and the Apple application is still not granted... but that is not to say don't go here! OSS should have been here first IMHO. If it was - no patent - ever. Publication of source code implementing an idea is a very solid disclosure and if unambiguously dated would be able to prevent a patent (except by the code's authors) where applied for after the source code's public release.

One reason why I get frustrated about projects that aim primarily to copy what windows/Mac/whoever does.

Dryfit wrote:I rather see some new things like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfzplPIrzjY . Windows 7 is just the same thing as before with a little change under the hood and some eye candy.

I hope linux will also think more on touch our multi touch in there roadmaps, it will be the future also web based applications will be.

Actually, X11R7.5 (the next release) is scheduled to to come with MPX support, which will enable these kinds of things to be done. In the mean time (before actually you get a screen like that) you'll be able to have a mouse pointer for each mouse you have plugged in. That's going to be so much fun!

Alec wrote:

Dryfit wrote:I rather see some new things like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfzplPIrzjY . Windows 7 is just the same thing as before with a little change under the hood and some eye candy.

I hope linux will also think more on touch our multi touch in there roadmaps, it will be the future also web based applications will be.

Actually, X11R7.5 (the next release) is scheduled to to come with MPX support, which will enable these kinds of things to be done. In the mean time (before actually you get a screen like that) you'll be able to have a mouse pointer for each mouse you have plugged in. That's going to be so much fun!

Cool i need to connect my pc to my Plasma screen then, so my wife and me can do things together on one pc.

andre_orwell wrote:Please don't "loose" the systray or some functional equivalent!

Systray could be killed, but the functionality would still be there.

Almost all the content in the systray is dynamic (is updated to reflect the status of software running on the system) and active (you can interact with it directly to open a relevant application or access a relevant menu).

Most of the stuff in systray is useless. And it's not dynamic at all. Only notification I get from the systray is the notification that there are updates to my distro. And that could be handled by Knotify just fine.

It has Kwallet. I don't need to stare at t all the time. It has network-manager. Why do I need to stare at that all the time? Battery-monitor? Couldn't that be handled by a truly dynamic plasmoid instead?

The design of systray makes it way too easy dumbing-ground for all kinds of miscellaneous ****. If we used plasmoids instead, the bar would be a lot higher. With systray, it's way too easy to keep on piling icons there.

It is always visible so it provides information with the minimum of distraction from the current task.

95% of the information is completely useless. And most of the time the icons do not provide any information at all.

A systray alternative sounds like a good idea to me. Maybe somebody has a good idea to eliminate the taskbar as well. [size=x-small]One can only hope.[/size]

I don't like what I see on those Windows 7 screenshots. The visual style looks very dated, it looks dated in Windows Vista and the current Windows 7 style isn't all that different. For some reason Microsoft thinks it needs to apply transparency and gloss to every single UI aspect, just because their frameworks provide said functionality.

It misses a certain elegance and lightness which is hard to describe in words but is clearly visible in both the visual design of KDE 4 and Mac OS X.

Janne wrote:It has Kwallet. I don't need to stare at t all the time. It has network-manager. Why do I need to stare at that all the time? Battery-monitor? Couldn't that be handled by a truly dynamic plasmoid instead?

I really don't see how making it a plasmoid will help. The point of KWallet is that when it's open, you're aware of the fact that it is open. If you let someone use your computer and you don't want them to have access to every account you have, you right-click the walled and say "Quit." It then disappears (it also disappears after I lock the screen or not use it for several minutes).

Now, let's take another systray icon - the KTorrent. When I open KTorrent, an Icon appears in systray and shows little bars representing upload and download speeds, as well as detailed information on hover. If it was a plasmoid, what would happen if I quit KTorrent? KTorrent won't be running, but the useless plasmoid will remain for me to stare at. I haven't yet seen a plasmoid that appears and disappears depending on certain events (and I assume I won't see one anytime soon because how would you remove it if it's not visible?)

And did you say battery monitor? I don't think there is a battery monitor in system tray in KDE4. There is a big fat plasmoid that takes up twice the amount of space and doesn't show the amount of battery life as legibly the KDE 3 systray icon (which had a small square where, as the battery life dropped down, pixels would dissappear one-by-one).

Alec wrote:I really don't see how making it a plasmoid will help. The point of KWallet is that when it's open, you're aware of the fact that it is open. If you let someone use your computer and you don't want them to have access to every account you have, you right-click the walled and say "Quit." It then disappears (it also disappears after I lock the screen or not use it for several minutes).

Is it just me, or is that a really far-fetched example? I have never ran in to that issue in OS X (for example) even though it has similar functionality. Besides, we should use fast user switching for situation like you describe. What you just described promotes insecure computing.

Now, let's take another systray icon - the KTorrent. When I open KTorrent, an Icon appears in systray and shows little bars representing upload and download speeds, as well as detailed information on hover. If it was a plasmoid, what would happen if I quit KTorrent? KTorrent won't be running, but the useless plasmoid will remain for me to stare at. I haven't yet seen a plasmoid that appears and disappears depending on certain events (and I assume I won't see one anytime soon because how would you remove it if it's not visible?)

That functionality might not exist yet, but it should. The app could have related plasmoids attached to it, that provide useful functionality.

That said, it might be useful to consider a scheme similar to OS X, where closing the app-window does not close the app itself, it keeps on running in the background. Although I can understand that that might be a big change in how the system behaves. But it would make sense. You could just close the app-windows you do not need, but the apps would keep on running, and maybe providing you with information through Knotify/plasmoids.

And did you say battery monitor? I don't think there is a battery monitor in system tray in KDE4.

Yes there is. And it's in the systray _all_the_time_. It lets me know that I'm plugged in to the wall-socket (like I didn't know that already), and it lets me know that I'm running on battery (again, like I didn't know that already).

What should the battery-monitor tell me? It should tell me that how much power I have left in my battery, and how much longer it takes to charge the battery. To accomplish those tasks, we do not need a systray-icon that is visible all the time. What we should have instead is a plasmoid that is visible only when there's something important going on (that is, when the user is on battery-power and when he's charging the battery).